Talking to Crazy

Talking to Crazy Plot Summary

Introduction

Have you ever found yourself trapped in a conversation that seemed impossible to navigate? Perhaps it was with an angry customer who wouldn't listen to reason, a defensive colleague who twisted your words, or a family member whose emotional outbursts left you speechless. In these moments, traditional communication strategies often fail spectacularly, leaving both parties frustrated and the relationship damaged. What if there was a better way? What if you could transform these challenging exchanges into productive conversations—even when dealing with someone who seems completely irrational? The techniques in this book aren't just theoretical concepts but proven methods developed through decades of professional experience with thousands of difficult situations. You'll learn not only how to remain calm when others lose control but how to actively lean into the conversation in ways that disarm tension and create genuine breakthrough moments.

Chapter 1: Understanding the Irrational Mind

When we encounter someone who seems irrational, our natural instinct is to counter with logic. We try to reason, argue, or present facts. But this approach almost always fails because the fundamental nature of irrationality isn't something you can simply reason away. At its core, irrationality stems from a misalignment in how a person's brain processes information. Neuroscientists have identified that what we think of as our mind actually consists of three interconnected brains working together—or sometimes at odds. The primitive lower brain focuses on survival instincts, the middle brain processes emotions, and the upper brain handles logical thinking. When someone becomes irrational, their brain alignment shifts dramatically, with the emotional or survival brain taking control while logic takes a backseat. Dr. Mark Goulston encountered this reality firsthand when dealing with a patient in a psychiatric hospital. A schizophrenic patient named John had become violent, destroying furniture and terrifying the nursing staff. Rather than immediately ordering restraints and sedation as the nurses urged, Dr. Goulston approached John directly. Instead of confronting John's behavior logically, he simply asked, "Do you think there are any Camels in the cigarette machines in the hall outside?" This unexpected question momentarily interrupted John's irrational state, creating an opening for connection. Within minutes, John had calmed down enough that restraints weren't necessary. What made this approach work was Dr. Goulston's willingness to temporarily enter John's reality rather than forcing John to enter his. This represents the core principle of dealing with irrationality: you need to lean into the crazy rather than fighting against it. Traditional approaches attempt to impose logic from the outside in, while effective approaches work from the inside out. The path to effectively communicating with irrational people involves first understanding that their behavior stems from their brains being temporarily misaligned. The person literally cannot think clearly in that moment. Rather than viewing this as a character flaw, recognize it as a temporary neurological state that requires a different communication strategy—one that acknowledges their emotional reality before attempting to guide them toward clarity. When you understand this principle, you'll stop taking irrational behavior personally and start seeing it as an opportunity to demonstrate real communication skill. This mindset shift alone will transform your difficult conversations from frustrating dead ends into pathways toward resolution.

Chapter 2: Leaning In: The Power of Acceptance

Leaning in to someone's irrational behavior might seem counterintuitive, even dangerous. After all, our instinct when facing someone who's being unreasonable is to either fight back with logic or distance ourselves emotionally. But the most effective approach often requires doing exactly the opposite of what feels natural. This concept is beautifully illustrated by an incident Dr. Goulston experienced during a particularly frustrating day. While driving home in heavy traffic, he accidentally cut off a large pickup truck—not once, but twice. The enraged driver, a massive man weighing around 300 pounds, forced Dr. Goulston off the road, stormed to his car, and began pounding on the window while screaming obscenities. In that critical moment, rather than responding with fear or defensiveness, Dr. Goulston did something unexpected. When the man paused to take a breath, he asked calmly, "Have you ever had such an awful day that you're just hoping to meet someone who will pull out a gun, shoot you, and put you out of your misery? Are you that someone?" The question completely disarmed the angry driver, who stammered, "What?" Within moments, the man's entire demeanor changed. His rage transformed into concern, and he began reassuring Dr. Goulston: "Hey. C'mon, man. It'll be okay. Really!" This technique, which Dr. Goulston calls "assertive submission," works because it changes the power dynamic in surprising ways. Like a dog rolling onto its back to show its belly to a more dominant dog, it signals that you're not a threat. But unlike pure submission, it maintains your dignity and actually puts you in control of the interaction. The effectiveness of this approach was further demonstrated when Brian, a software developer, found himself in constant conflict with a team of younger developers. During heated meetings, Brian's forceful communication style came across as belligerent and intimidating, triggering emotional responses from the younger team members. After learning about assertive submission, Brian tried a new approach. In their next contentious meeting, he paused and acknowledged, "I guess to you all, I come across as a pit bull. But from my point of view, I feel like a little Chihuahua." By vulnerably admitting how he appeared to others and asking for their input on better ways to communicate, Brian completely transformed the team dynamic. The power of leaning in comes from its ability to disrupt the expected pattern of escalation. When you accept someone's irrational state rather than fighting it, you create space for connection. This doesn't mean agreeing with their irrational perspective, but rather acknowledging their emotional reality before attempting to guide them toward clarity. To effectively practice this technique, start by recognizing when someone is in an irrational state. Then, instead of confronting them, find ways to temporarily enter their reality. This might involve validating their emotions, asking questions that show you're trying to understand, or even using humor to defuse tension. The goal is to establish connection first, which creates the foundation for moving toward resolution.

Chapter 3: The Pause That Transforms Reactions

The moment between stimulus and response holds extraordinary power. When facing an irrational person who's launching verbal grenades like "You never listen!" or "This is all your fault," that brief pause before you react can determine whether the conversation spirals into chaos or transforms into something productive. Learning to master this crucial pause was a hard-won lesson for Kimberly, an executive whose communication style was characterized by colleagues as "hysteria." During one particularly heated exchange with her manager Jason, Kimberly exploded about her workload: "Nobody realizes how much I already have on my plate. I can't believe you think I'll be able to get this done. You might have a nervous breakdown on your hands soon!" Rather than responding defensively or dismissively, Jason paused. He remembered advice about finding the calm within the storm—the "eye of the hurricane"—and waited for Kimberly's emotional outburst to subside. When Kimberly finally ran out of steam, Jason responded with a question rather than a counterattack: "I hear what you're saying, and I can see that you're very upset. Can I ask you a question? What is the result that you want from our conversation? What specifically do you want me to do now, tomorrow, or in the future as a result of what you just said?" This pause-and-redirect approach completely changed the dynamic. Kimberly, accustomed to escalating battles with previous managers, was caught off guard by Jason's calm response. "I want you to understand how stressed I am," she admitted, her tone less aggressive. Jason continued with his measured approach: "I'm listening to what you have to say. But do you honestly believe that how you just spoke to me is going to get you the result you want?" This simple question, delivered without judgment, led Kimberly to an emotional breakthrough. "I think I've always screamed because I never felt anyone ever listened to me," she confessed, her defenses crumbling. "You just took the time to try to understand, and that meant you actually felt I was worth listening to." The power of the pause lies in its ability to interrupt the amygdala hijack—that moment when your brain's threat-detection system overrides logical thinking. When triggered by an irrational person, your amygdala floods your system with stress hormones, preparing you for fight or flight. In this state, you physically cannot access your best thinking. The pause gives your prefrontal cortex—the rational part of your brain—time to regain control. To master this technique, practice saying to yourself "opportunity for poise" when you feel triggered. This mental reframing transforms a threatening situation into a chance to demonstrate composure. Then, allow the other person to fully vent without interruption. When they finish, ask questions that guide them toward clarity: "What's the most important thing I need to do in the long term? What's critical in the short term? What do you need right now?" By consistently using the pause to find the eye of the hurricane, you'll help emotional people recognize that they can get their needs met without emotional escalation. Over time, this can fundamentally change their communication patterns, creating more productive relationships both at home and in the workplace.

Chapter 4: Mirror Techniques for Deeper Connection

When rational communication fails, sometimes the most powerful approach is to create connection without words. This technique, which Dr. Goulston calls "the Fishbowl," harnesses the power of mirror neurons—specialized brain cells that fire both when we perform an action and when we observe someone else performing that action. These "empathy neurons" allow us to literally feel what others are feeling, creating a pathway to connection even when words fall short. The transformative power of this approach was demonstrated dramatically in the case of Jim and Rick, two executives whose relationship had deteriorated to the point of endangering their division's success. The breaking point came during a team meeting when Jim publicly humiliated Rick, calling him "utterly useless" and a "coward" when Rick tried to leave the room. The incident left the entire team uncomfortable and damaged morale throughout the organization. When Dr. Goulston was called in to address the situation, he began by meeting with each man separately to hear their perspectives. Rick described Jim as a bully who deliberately triggered his stress response, while Jim admitted that pressure from his own boss had contributed to his outburst. After understanding both sides, Dr. Goulston brought them together and implemented the Fishbowl technique. He instructed them to sit face-to-face in silence, looking directly into each other's eyes—focusing particularly on the left eye, which connects more directly to the emotional right brain. Initially, both men sat stiffly, clearly uncomfortable with this level of vulnerability. But gradually, their rigid postures relaxed as their mirror neurons activated, allowing each to feel the other's discomfort and humanity. Once they were "in the fishbowl" together, Dr. Goulston asked Jim to say: "I'm sorry about bullying and humiliating you in that meeting. And I am sorry about all the other times I've done it to you." Then he added simply, "I was wrong." At these words, Rick became overwhelmed with emotion and began to cry. When asked about his reaction, Rick explained, "I've never been apologized to in my entire life—much less had someone tell me they were wrong for doing something hurtful to me." In response, Rick simply said, "Thank you," a gesture that deeply moved both Jim and Dr. Goulston. The power of this technique lies in its ability to bypass intellectual defenses and connect directly on an emotional level. When two people shut out distractions and focus solely on each other, their mirror neurons activate intensely, creating a shared experience that dissolves barriers. In this vulnerable state, people drop their defensive postures and see each other as they truly are—not as enemies but as fellow humans with fears, insecurities, and hopes. To use this technique effectively, begin by assuming that the other person is fundamentally good and doing the best they can. Then invite them to simply look into your eyes without speaking. When you sense the connection deepening, you can begin a gentle conversation while maintaining eye contact. This approach is particularly effective with people who are emotionally distant or who have difficulty expressing themselves verbally.

Chapter 5: Redirecting Emotional Hurricanes

When someone is trapped in intense emotions—whether fear, anger, or despair—they become like someone caught in a hurricane, unable to see clearly or find their way out. Traditional approaches like telling them to "calm down" or "be reasonable" only intensify the storm. Instead, you need techniques to guide them safely to the calm eye of their emotional hurricane. This approach proved life-changing for Alice, a woman suffering from delusional depression who strongly resisted getting any treatment. Rather than trying to convince her that her fears were irrational, her therapist began by simply listening. Eventually, Alice revealed the source of her resistance: "Every day, I'm afraid that someone is going to come and force me to go into a psychiatric hospital." Five years earlier, she explained, police had taken her to a hospital against her will, restraining her arms and legs. The experience had been so traumatic that she relived it daily. Instead of dismissing her fear or trying to reason it away, her therapist acknowledged its reality: "It must be awful to carry around the memory of being taken away by the police, being forced to go into a psychiatric hospital, and thinking someone was going to kill you. And it must be awful not knowing how you survived and worrying that it could happen again." At this validation, Alice sobbed with relief that someone finally understood rather than minimizing her experience. This approach, which Dr. Goulston calls "the Three L's," consists of leaning in to the person's fear, looking at their reality, and leading them into the future. The therapist leaned in by recognizing that from Alice's perspective, her fear was completely reasonable. He looked at her reality by exploring what had happened and how it continued to affect her. Then, over time, he could lead her toward considering treatment options that wouldn't trigger her trauma response. The effectiveness of this method was also demonstrated by Wendy, a mother whose autistic daughter had a violent meltdown while driving on a busy freeway. The child began smashing her head against the car window, causing her nose to bleed and creating a terrifying situation. Later, when Wendy joined a support group for parents of autistic children, she found tremendous relief in having others acknowledge the reality of her struggles without trying to offer quick fixes or platitudes. To effectively redirect emotional hurricanes, begin by accepting that the person's emotional response makes sense from their perspective. Rather than saying "calm down" or "you're overreacting," try asking, "What's the worst thing for you right now?" Then dig deeper with follow-up questions like "At its worst, how bad does that get for you?" and "When it's at its worst, what does it make you want to do?" These questions signal that you're willing to enter their reality rather than demanding they enter yours. As you guide people through their emotional storms, remember that your goal isn't to stop the hurricane but to help them find its eye—that place of calm where they can think more clearly. From this centered place, you can then work together to develop strategies for moving forward. The key insight is that people can handle pain when they don't feel alone in it; it's the isolation that makes suffering unbearable.

Chapter 6: Setting Boundaries with Compassion

Setting boundaries with irrational people seems like an impossible paradox. How do you remain compassionate while also protecting yourself from manipulation, emotional exhaustion, or outright abuse? The answer lies in understanding that true compassion sometimes requires firmness, and that boundaries can be both kind and uncompromising. Nancy's story illustrates this principle perfectly. After retiring from her position at a TV network in Chicago, she found herself constantly fielding panicked calls from her former colleague Joan. These weren't occasional check-ins but desperate pleas for help with everything from work projects to personal crises. The situation escalated when Nancy was asked to attend a meeting in Dubai and became so anxious about traveling without Joan's support that she experienced panic attacks and had to decline the assignment. Exhausted by Nancy's growing dependence, Joan sought advice on how to handle the situation without abandoning her friend. She learned about a technique called "the Gentle Kiss-Off," which allowed her to set boundaries with compassion rather than frustration. The next time Nancy called to vent, Joan let her speak for a few moments and then gently but firmly said, "I need to stop you for a moment." When Nancy expressed surprise, Joan continued with remarkable honesty: "I'm doing something wrong as your friend. I see that when you vent to me, you feel better, but then you're not motivated to deal with your problems. In essence, I'm enabling you to stay stuck in bad situations. And as your friend, I can't and won't continue to do that." Instead of simply cutting Nancy off, Joan offered a new way forward: "Going forward, I'm going to interrupt this kind of conversation. Then I'm going to say that I get that you're scared or upset. So what's the first thing you should do to deal with this situation?" This approach worked because it reframed the boundary as an act of caring rather than rejection. Joan wasn't abandoning Nancy; she was refusing to participate in keeping her stuck. The boundary wasn't "I won't listen to you anymore" but rather "I care too much about you to keep enabling behavior that hurts you." A similar approach can work with aging parents who resist accepting help despite clearly needing it. As people lose control over their minds, bodies, and lives, they often become increasingly irrational about maintaining independence. Rather than arguing or pleading, try what Dr. Goulston calls "the assumptive close." Instead of asking "Do you want help?" (which invites resistance), say something like: "It's getting to that time when you need people to help you. So I'm wondering—do you want an upscale living facility like Aunt Rosie chose, or do you think you'd be more comfortable in a homier setting?" The key to setting compassionate boundaries is understanding that they protect both you and the other person. By refusing to participate in enabling behaviors, you create space for growth and change. This requires clarity about what you will and won't accept, combined with genuine care for the other person's wellbeing. When implementing boundaries, use declarative rather than explanatory language. Instead of justifying your boundary with reasons the other person can argue with, simply state what will happen: "Going forward, if you start yelling, I will end the conversation until you're calm." Then follow through consistently, knowing that your boundary is an act of respect for both yourself and the other person.

Chapter 7: From Conflict to Collaboration

The ultimate goal in dealing with difficult people isn't merely to survive the interaction but to transform conflict into genuine collaboration. This transformation becomes possible when you help people heal the underlying wounds that drive their irrational behavior. This principle came to life dramatically in the story of Rick and his father Sam, who had been estranged for fifteen years. When Rick finally asked his father why he had become so distant, Sam revealed something shocking: when Rick was 19 and high on drugs, he had told his father, "I hate you! You're the worst father anyone I know has, and I wish either you or I were dead." Sam had taken these words literally and backed away emotionally, believing his son truly wanted nothing to do with him. Rick was stunned, as he barely remembered the incident due to his intoxicated state. While Sam appeared to be the rational one in this scenario, his inability to recognize that his son's drug-fueled outburst didn't represent his true feelings had caused fifteen years of unnecessary pain for both of them. By digging beneath the surface anger to the disappointment underneath, they were able to begin healing their relationship. For more severe breaches of trust, Dr. Goulston recommends a powerful approach called the "Four H's and Four R's." This technique helps people who have been deeply hurt move from holding grudges to finding forgiveness. The Four H's represent how the person was damaged: Hurt (experiencing intense pain), Hate (feeling rage toward the other person), Hesitant to Trust (fearing being wounded again), and Holding a Grudge (maintaining emotional distance as protection). The Four R's represent what's needed for healing: Remorse (feeling genuine pain for having caused harm), Restitution (making amends), Rehabilitation (changing the harmful behavior patterns), and Requesting Forgiveness (asking directly for a second chance). When both parties engage in this process honestly, seemingly irreparable relationships can be restored. Kaylin used this approach after her husband Ed humiliated her at her sister's wedding by getting drunk and making crude remarks to the bride. Rather than simply forgiving him or ending the marriage, she guided him through the Four R's process. She helped him understand how deeply he had hurt her, allowed him to demonstrate genuine remorse, required him to prove over six months that he could change his behavior, and finally accepted his request for forgiveness when he had earned it. The path from conflict to collaboration requires creating safety for vulnerability. When people feel safe enough to share their deepest fears and disappointments, they can move beyond defensive postures to genuine connection. This might involve saying, "I agree that you went through a terrible experience earlier. And if that happened to me, I think I'd have similar fears." The most powerful insight in transforming conflict is that underneath most irrational behavior lies a person who wants to be understood, valued, and connected. By addressing these fundamental human needs, you can help people move from their defensive, reactive brain states to their collaborative, creative ones. The techniques in this book aren't about manipulating others but about creating conditions where healing and growth become possible for everyone involved.

Summary

Throughout this journey into mastering difficult conversations, we've explored the neuroscience behind irrationality and discovered that what appears as "crazy" behavior is often the result of brain misalignment rather than malice. The core insight that transforms our approach is understanding that we must "lean into the crazy" rather than fighting against it. As Dr. Goulston powerfully states, "When you meet people where they are emotionally, you create a bridge they can cross to where you want them to be rationally." The techniques we've examined—from the assertive submission of the Belly Roll to the deep connection of the Fishbowl—all share a common foundation: they acknowledge the other person's emotional reality before attempting to guide them toward clarity. This isn't merely a communication strategy; it's a profound act of respect that honors our shared humanity even in our most irrational moments. Your next opportunity to practice these skills will likely arrive sooner than you expect. When it does, take a deep breath, remember to pause, and lean into the conversation with confidence knowing you now possess the tools to transform conflict into connection.

About Author

Loading...

Mark Goulston

MARK GOULSTON, M.D., is a business psychiatrist and consultant, author of the bestselling Just Listen, and subject of the PBS special “Just Listen with Dr. Goulston.” He writes a Tribune syndicated career column; blogs for Fast Company, Business Insider, Huffington Post, and Psychology Today; and is featured frequently in major media including The Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, Fortune, Newsweek, CNN, NPR, and Fox News.

Read more

Related Books by Mark Goulston

Loading...

Just Listen

Keith Ferrazzi

Discover the Secret to Getting Through to Absolutely Anyone

★★★★☆4.1